Altecs & tube amps......

[Russnohio]

Note to Russ:

You can see how many watts you are using.
Your G-9000 has power meters. Says WATTS (8Ω) PEAK

You want to read the top scale. It starts at 0 and then .1 (one tenth of a watt), then 1 watt, then 10 watts and goes on.

Anything over 3 watts with those 19's should be ABUSIVE.

I will admit that when the needles are wavering towards the "10" mark on the meters the sound is insanely loud, especially in my small 15'X22' living room. It is extremely rare though, that I play them that loud.......sometimes can't resist tho'!!

I'd always Knew I'd never actually USE the full 160 wpc output of the reciever in my normal listening, but all that extra power (+ the finely made Altec drivers) was the one thing that kept the sound quality of my music so crystal-clear and life-like during powerful........transients I think they're called?......on cymbal crashes & bass drum hits, when the needles are'nt even touching the "ten" mark on the meters.

I guess what I'm getting at is......that if I were running a 30 wpc amp/reciver and the meter needles were wavering toward the "ten" mark......the sound would be just as loud......but not as clean and undistorted......when talking here about 30 wpc vs. 160 wpc .....I'm of course meaning with solid-state amplification.

So.....in using tube amplification....power "headroom" is not as much an issue as it is with solid-state?


Thanks,
Russ

[bowtie427ss]

So.....in using tube amplification....power "headroom" is not as much an issue as it is with solid-state?

It's certainly an issue for me Russ.

Perhaps the bigger issue(for me) is the rolled off frequency response at both ends of the spectrum that is characteristic of 98% of all tube amps, and a surprising number of SS amps.

I spent over a decade and thousands of greenbacks, on top of various mods, upgrades, and circuit changes chasing my tail thru the pursuit of the tube fantasy. My conclusion ultimately is that i have no interest in trying to find the optimal match between 1 piece of gear with shortcomings that mask or compliment the shortcomings of another.

My advice, audition all the tube amplifiers you possibly can, then try a Pass F5 in their place and decide which you want to live with over the long haul.

I'll spend as many words trying to sell you on the virtues of tube amplification as i would on 10 thousand dollar speaker cables.

But, by all means hear for yourself as YMMV.

[Nipper]

I'll spend as many words trying to sell you on the virtues of tube amplification as i would on 10 thousand dollar speaker cables.

Bowtie, you are brutally honest and eloquent. You just might be the best!

I have heard and read the comment "horns love tubes" a million times from the audio parrots, and most never owned a set.

The best sounding amps I ever heard with mine were all SS. Others are entitled to their opinions.

Dont fall for it Russ. You have an incredible setup I wouldn't hesitate to put up against most anything if all is working properly. It never hurts to try other equipment and its fun, but never let anyone influence you. Try it yourself and you will know when its just right.

[RonSSS]

It's certainly an issue for me Russ.

Perhaps the bigger issue(for me) is the rolled off frequency response at both ends of the spectrum that is characteristic of 98% of all tube amps, and a surprising number of SS amps.

What is your definition of rolled off?
Db vs. Freq. at 20 and 20Khz

Ron

[bowtie427ss]

I don't claim to be an expert Ron, Nipper gives me too much credit.

In basis, i subscribe to the Stu Hegeman school of thought that basically suggests that for an amplifier to be truly flat from 20 to 20k, the actual measured bandwidth will need to be much wider. This is evidenced in his designs for the Citation II and Citation V which both use very high quality output iron giving those amplifiers claimed response bandwidth of something like 5hz to 60khz. We'll save his use of what some feel is an excessive amount of feedback to accomplish this for a different discussion.

Suffice to say that of the many tube amplifiers i've owned and lived with, the Citations when fully and properly restored were my favorites.

So, i guess to answer your question, IMO, an amplifier with a rolled off response is one with a MEASURED frequency response bandwidth that varies more than -1 db within the 20-20k range.

I would also add FWIW, that just because an amplifier(tube or ss) has a rolled off response, doesn't necessarily mean it will sound bad. I had a home brew SET using TV sweep tubes that i was rather fond of running on my 9849's. Since i was driving speakers with limited LFE, and amplifier with limited LFE was of no consequence.

Ironically, you can probably look forward to a revised and improved version of that amplifier to become available to the public in limited quantities.

Now, i must return to the Krell powered Westlakes for an extended Saturday night session.

[RonSSS]

We are on the same wavelength. Pun intended.
My home brew PP 300B amps use no feedback and have Citation II OPT's and meet the less than 1dB requirement at the extreemes. They sound quite nice and not at all rolled off.
On the other hand, I haven't had a dead flat SS amp in my system ever.
So this is all to my old ears.

Ron

[Panomaniac]

Here is promised thread about how to measure how much power you need:
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/f700...-use-test.html

[juniper]

It's certainly an issue for me Russ.

Perhaps the bigger issue(for me) is the rolled off frequency response at both ends of the spectrum that is characteristic of 98% of all tube amps, and a surprising number of SS amps.

I spent over a decade and thousands of greenbacks, on top of various mods, upgrades, and circuit changes chasing my tail thru the pursuit of the tube fantasy. My conclusion ultimately is that i have no interest in trying to find the optimal match between 1 piece of gear with shortcomings that mask or compliment the shortcomings of another.

My advice, audition all the tube amplifiers you possibly can, then try a Pass F5 in their place and decide which you want to live with over the long haul.

I'll spend as many words trying to sell you on the virtues of tube amplification as i would on 10 thousand dollar speaker cables.

But, by all means hear for yourself as YMMV.

Bowtie What preamp do you use in your set up? Also how do you feel about clones of this Pass unit?